The Decoupling of Conversations From Content
I’m noticing a trend on some blog posts (instigated by Medium). There is no comments provision. Instead, the author suggests a link to Reddit or HackerNews in order to discuss their post.
What I believe is happening is an unbundling of the post from the conversation, because not every blog is a community.
The reality is that not every blog author is able to foster a vibrant online community around their content, but if they place their good content where there is a vibrant community, they are more likely to get a discussion going, because that community is already accustomed to commenting passionately about that topic.
This was basically the HackerNews premise, where almost anyone can get a discussion going, if they write some good content. This was also the Reddit premise, although it has evolved to also include native content. You might think there’s nothing new about this, but what’s new is there are more new types of communities where discussions on aggregated content are taking place.
Some examples:
- Inbound.org is where inbound marketers share and discuss articles related to inbound marketing
- GrowthHackers.com is filled with growth hacking, technology and entrepreneurship enthusiasts
- USV.com is still shaping itself, but it is becoming a discussion think tank for Internet related business and technology hot issues
Of course there are singular blogs and web properties that see a fair share of native conversations within their own turf, e.g. AVC.com, Brad Feld or Rand Fishkin’s blogs, and many others that have vibrant communities supporting their blog discussions, but these did not happen overnight. It took time to grow a sustainable community following for each one of them.
It is difficult to bring people together into a place where they aren’t used to discussing things, but it’s easier to bring new content to places where people are already used to discussions. Arnold Waldstein had a post titled You can’t airlift community, noting that “community lives where engagement happens”. And Tyler Hayes aptly observed that the missing ingredient is community, in his post Everything is a comment.
I’m a believer that the community could trump the content when it comes to starting conversations. It is not the content alone that attracts or forms a community. Other factors include the person behind the blog, their personality, position or status. That’s why most mainstream media discussions or multi-author blogs are derided of any community feeling. The author’s personality rarely injects itself into the online conversations.
A community is formed due to higher motives or interests, beyond just the content. Content occupies the community’s mind and gets discussed to fulfill a psychological, intellectual, business or social need.
Therefore it is possible that the number of vibrant discussion communities will shrink in favor of fewer, but higher quality and more engaging ones.
Writing a post and seeing it discussed are two different things. I think the decoupling trend will continue to increase. It’s a good thing, because strong communities will get to discuss some good content irrespective of its origin.
PS: If you know of other neutral “aggregation + discussion” communities like Inbound.org, GrowthHackers.com or USV.com, can you please mention them in the comments?
And as well William, there seems to be less emphasis on forums when it comes to enabling communities to share commentary. A site like BiggerPockets.com which focuses on real estate investors has made their forums a integral part of their offering. Granted it takes monitoring, but I see no reason why forums couldn’t at the very least keep community eyeballs on their own home turf.
Interesting. I haven’t been on a forum for years. Are online forums coming back?
Jeff Atwood (of Stack Exchange fame) thinks so -> http://www.discourse.org
I’m not sure they are back in vogue, but sending eyeballs on to a different medium seems to make little sense. I get the idea that monitoring the numerous comments could be a task in itself, but if you are already working hard to produce what you hope is great content, why not go the extra mile!
It does look better than the old forums, but I’d like to see it on a blog.
Well thought out.
I’ve been obsessed with this idea for a long time and network platforms aside, this idea of cross network flash communities is a reality with some history already. A reality for how we engage, as well as discover. Dug deep on this here–>Flash community as the new normal http://awe.sm/hHxL4
Reading over you post though three things jump out at me:
1. the commoditization of the comment platform itself as it is becoming more and more, just smart plumbing.
2. the movement towards a single identity system on the web which is what Twitter is folding itself around.
3. key word, topical aggregations honestly seem like v 2.0 with a crowd sourced twist of curation discussion platform which for the most part, lasted hardly at all.
Thanks.
Good points. Your #1 is interesting as it has potential implications for the current players that look more and more like an infrastructure piece, although they do a great job at holding the conversation together. It’s tough being perceived as middleware.
Middleware is not so much a dirty word as usually a very different model.
William – can you point out blogs that are pointing people to other locations for discussion? Arnold and Tyler’s blog posts have discussions right on their page, via Disqus (as do you). Wouldn’t you consider Disqus as a potential “platform” itself – and a powerful one in that it can be embedded right on your page?
I am *way* behind on this – I just finally put an email subscription and RSS feed option on my own blog, and really don’t do anything at all to promote it – but I am getting more interested in this concept, especially for my new startup, where we will be blogging regularly (I hope – assuming that Keith Rabois is indeed wrong!! 🙂
It depends. Some do both, i.e. have a commenting platform on the blog and link to an external discussion place, although you’re more likely to see that in those new CMSs that don’t have comments built in, like Medium or Svbtle.
Here’s an example:
http://progressreport.co/post/66793009673/what-happens-when-the-peer-economy-grows-up
And I see this routinely on Medium.
I do hope you will blog, even if it’s once or twice per week.
ok – got it. I think I’m fine for now – no need to list or post elsewhere – and I still think I like the idea of Disqus as my platform of choice.
Once or twice a week? More like once or twice a month – that’s all I can produce right now. I don’t tend to do short-burst blogs – most of mine are longer form (trying to change that) and I find I’m most creative in the mornings – but I’ve recently been committing my mornings to other activities. But I agree wholeheartedly that blogging is great for the soul and it’s important to get your ideas/thoughts out there and learn from others. Thanks again, your blog has quickly become one of my favorites.
are you a re investor? I’ve known Josh Dorkin, the founder of BP, for a long time. What he has done with his community is damn impressive — but that’s 8 years of community building. It’s incredibly hard to build what he has. It certainly can be done, but not easy.
Hi Drew, I have dabbled just a bit over the years, but real estate is not my core focus. I am a builder of web brands and have spent many years making my name in the financial markets. You are right Drew. It takes years to build something special as BP has done. I think any company starting now should figure out how to keep their audience in-house when it comes to conversation. Of course, this all depends on the type of business/service you are offering.
Hey Drew – Thanks for the commentary. It has been incredibly difficult to foster the community that we’ve built at BiggerPockets, but it was well worthwhile. You can’t will a community to happen — it takes a dedicated mission and you need to give your users something that they can rally around. That’s the secret sauce, IMO.
I agree, Paul. The value of commentary shared within our walls at BiggerPockets are second to none in the real estate space. While we certainly do need to stay on top of things, the best part about a strong community is that it becomes self-policing. The users of sites like ours become very protective; its fun to watch!
BTW – I appreciate the shout out.
Hey William – The site that @paul_rubillo:disqus mentioned above is mine — a social network for real estate investors with a forum community at its core. I don’t think that forums every disappeared, but they have evolved some. Sites like those in the Stack family are less forums and more answer engines, as is Quora.
I think the issue that most traditional forums face is in moderation. Lax policy standards and enforcement inevitably leads to a community that is overrun by spam and flame wars.
If you thought that forums were dead, I’d love if you came to see what we’ve got happening.
As for your initial discussion in your post, I can’t comprehend why bloggers would offshoot the discussion around their content to other sites. That feels a little lazy to me.
That’s great to know. I have some ideas regarding a new venture that I would like to reach out to you about. Different field, but I’m sure you’d like it!
Sure – hit me up.
Awesome, check your in-box. Just sent you a note. Let me know you got it!
Hi Joshua, You’re right, the evolution of forums is what has happened. Yours is a very interesting case with a strong community.
To answer your last question, it’s a 2-part answer:
1) For blog postings outside of your own blog, other destinations may have more traffic than someone’s own blog, e.g. publishing on Medium or the Huff Po will get you a lot more reads than on your blog. Not every blog has a big audience, and until they build their own, it’s like a distribution strategy.
2) If you send the discussion somewhere else, typically the community is different there, and you might get a different kind of discussion than on your own blog.
In either cases, it’s not a straight “outsourcing”. It’s an AND, not OR. So, you’re getting more distribution footprint.
See also my previous comment to Joshua. Sending comments outside of your blog is like an additive strategy, not a replacement for your own.
The other important aspect is that you want to look at the community benefits. One of the side effects of community discussions is to meet other interesting people, so you get a chance to meet new people that “live” in different communities that you wouldn’t otherwise have met in your own.
Thanks!
I definitely agree with you William that participating on other platforms is a great way to extend the conversation and meet others. It’s a great two-pronged strategy.
Hey @wmoug:disqus – Thanks for the feedback.
As for your #1 above, I don’t see that as offshoring your comments. Syndicating or posting content on larger outposts is just another way to get visibility; we’re in complete agreement there.
As for #2, again, I do agree once again.
That said, I believe that most communities including Reddit and HackerNews look down upon posting your own content there, don’t they?
I suppose some people may use these sites to garner discussion, but my guess is that most are doing it for self promotion.
Regardless, in all cases, you’re expanding your footprint, which is the ultimate goal of content creators.
Re: HN. It depends. What gets discussed typically is whatever is of interest to that community. Sometimes it relates to the author, sometimes it’s the content. The nature of the voting system is such that you can promote your content, but it will only get noticed if it’s good or others like it, so it’s a self-cleansing system.
Yup. Sometimes it bites, sometimes it doesn’t.
William, very interesting observation. I have been visiting the growthhackers.com a lot lately since they always have fantastic content and its always on point. So your prediction about aggregation communities getting more focused and engaged around one general topic is probably correct.
Regarding Medium, what are your thoughts on their commenting format? I believe its comment on a paragraph rather than an entire post. For me, its harder to digest the comments this way, but easier to see what people say about the specific idea.
For your P.S., I sometimes visit http://sidebar.io/ for best 5 design news of the day. Didn’t see it on your list so I hope it helps.
Thanks for the Sidebar mention. I just signed-up. But are there discussions there? I didn’t see that. But it is a good case of qualitative curation.
Medium is interesting. They seem to be experimenting with these novel lightweight “micro-interactions”. In my opinion, that paragraph commenting is better suited for giving the author feedback on their post or draft, but it doesn’t expose the content in a way that’s conducive to an open discussion.
@wmoug:disqus – it is not facilitating discussions at the moment. It is a bit different from growthhackers.com or yc news at the moment. But I would imagine its not that far away if there is demand for it. However, the way I use it is very similar to growthhackers.com.
Regarding Medium, I agree. I don’t think its the last iteration of their commenting system that we will see.
Wanted to drop another one for ya here: http://www.producthunt.co/
Maybe we should make a spreadsheet where all of these communities can be outlined as well as the market that they are going after.
Thanks. Yup, I know @rrhoover well and have been on it.
You could start a Hackpad on that.
shoot: https://hackpad.com/Websites-that-unbundle-content-from-the-conversation-E5FzRhpkUxO
Thanks! I just added a couple.